Free Web Hosting Provider - Web Hosting - E-commerce - High Speed Internet - Free Web Page
Search the Web


Thread Closed  Thread Closed
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
  >>> the nexus <<<
  The Big Issue
  Volume 3 On 11/23. (Page 1)

Post New Topic  
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Volume 3 On 11/23.
Podge Dirkins
Initiate
posted November 24, 1999 08:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Podge Dirkins     Edit/Delete Message
Greetings all.

First post and it's just a little note to say how pleased I am with Volume 3. Read it through from the beginning today (what better day for it?) and once again confirmed that it's the most dense, cohesive, and nourishing distillation of the INVISIBLES as yet. Nay?

Three things:

1) I'm somewhat concerned about the multi-artist jam that's upcoming in "The Invisible Kingdom". The look of the book has been so consistent and striking throughout Volume 3 that I'd hate to see it spoiled by a sudden divergence of styles and approaches.

Even moreso I'd hate to see the quality of the artwork drop even a smidgen, given how damn perfect Volume 3 has clocked in thus far (and apologies to her fans, but I'm thinking Jill Thompson's work on "Arcadia" here, and I'm thinking I wouldn't want to see that kind of approach to the visuals this late in the game and at this critical a juncture).

Take a look at how well Bond and Philips have meshed across the first eight issues. Even with the slight shift in style between the two, the approach remains the same -- bold, strong black lines (no shading) against solid blocks of single colours. A most gorgeous and iconic representation of Grant's ideas and characters. It's a perfect look for the final chapter, thematically appropriate and visually arresting.

And that's why I'm worried the whole momentum may be spoiled by the impending smorgasbord.

Foolish?

2) Coming back round to an overall assessment of Volume 3, and this one directed at the writing...all I can say is, it's never been *this* good, *this* tight, *this* moving, *this* well-connected.

"Satanstorm" is a complete corker. Grant's in control from first panel through to last, and every time I read it I find new ways to inhabit, process, and adore it.

"Karmageddon" is absolutely beautiful, perhaps the most powerful and emotionally satisfying arc in the series as it stands.

The level of excellence Grant has established in Volume 3...I can only hope he doesn't drop the ball. Because if "The Invisible Kingdom" and the final issue are as lovely as the two preceding chapters, I mean, just imagine a TPB of Volume 3. It would be the INVISIBLES at its most incandescent.

It's like Grant has been working through the iterations, hammering it down, condensing it down, and at the end here it's reached a pinnacle, an ideal Platonic form. Read 12 thru 5 in one sitting, as fast as you can manage, and see.

3) And speaking of endings, sigh. I must admit a real sadness in knowing there are only 4 issues left of this. After that, there's just the paper and me and you and whatever we choose to do with it. But despite all that, I foresee a kind of loneliness in not having a new slice of the INVISIBLES each month or so. I think I'll miss it as I would an absent friend.

That's it for now. What say you?

Visored,
Podge Dirkins

70sman
Operative
posted November 24, 1999 09:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 70sman   Click Here to Email 70sman     Edit/Delete Message
I agree entirely.

PornoHolocaust
Operative
posted November 24, 1999 04:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PornoHolocaust   Click Here to Email PornoHolocaust     Edit/Delete Message
I'm expecting a lot of scene shifts in the artists jam. I'm hoping Grant will use the opportunity to send each artist to a different part of the world to cover the huge cast he's built, lessening the usual havoc created by several artists on one story.

Cochese
Operative
posted November 24, 1999 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cochese     Edit/Delete Message
Whatever it's going to be, it's going to be good, that's for sure. i keep thinking of little things that I want to see followed up and explained...More Fanny! Jim Crow back!(hopefully) What happens in 2012! What happens to Miles! What happens to KM! And everything!
Strap yourselves in, folks. Hell of a ride and all those cliches.

Loz
Operative
posted November 24, 1999 06:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Loz   Click Here to Email Loz     Edit/Delete Message
I just hope that wherever Hilde is going to be that Weston doesn't get that job, because his Fanny sucked big time (though at least he didn't make her look like a five year old).

Citizen Smith
Operative
posted November 24, 1999 07:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Citizen Smith     Edit/Delete Message
The artwork on the Arcadia arc really was a big bunch of arse,though, wasn't it? I lent those issues to a friend who is quite Invisiblist but doesn't read comics, and he couldn't really see beyond the crude scratchings to the storyline, and just thought it was the same stuff as the rest of the superhero wank. Volume three does it for me.

look!NickWaddam!
Operative
posted November 24, 1999 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for look!NickWaddam!   Click Here to Email look!NickWaddam!     Edit/Delete Message
I don't really gel with all of the flack that Thompson gets. A long time ago I hammered out a post attempting to balance out the equation. Thematically her art really did the Job. "Sheman" was concerned, amongst other things, with the "feminine". The harsh "urban" art of Steve Yeowell would not, for instance, have been suitable here. Rather, it is supplanted by soft lines, curves, and a lack of rigidity. Reality dissolves, the "membrane shivers", identities and genders merge. Perfect.
Grant has been very careful to make sure that the art reflects the tone of the book, and the art in the Sheman arc was no exception. In fact I could go on all day about how the art reflects the content.

But I won't.

I'm not saying anyone has to like the art - I'm not discussing aesthetic preference here - I'm simply pointing out that Thompson served her "function" well.

I have no problem with the "artist jam", soon to be gracing the pages of our favourite comic. Reality is being drawn into the singularity, counting down to the root of identity/universe. Everything collides in the centre. The artist jam reflects this. Poetry.

Anyway, on a simpler note, change is always good.

[This message has been edited by look!NickWaddam! (edited November 24, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by look!NickWaddam! (edited November 24, 1999).]

Citizen Smith
Operative
posted November 24, 1999 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Citizen Smith     Edit/Delete Message
Actually the Sheman stuff was okay. Specifically, it was 120 Days of Sod All that I thought stank. The horror the issue should have conveyed was leavened by artwork that looked like it had been done with one eye on EastEnders. Nothing personal, of course.

Zephir
Myrmidon
posted November 24, 1999 08:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zephir   Click Here to Email Zephir     Edit/Delete Message
At the risk of sounding unpopular... I don't hate Jill Thompson's art. Dammit. Look at the better parts of Sheman, look at the Finals series she did. I think a lot of it depends on the inkings, but there are some panels in arcadia that were so graphic and intense and well, traumatizing... at least, it wasn't as horrible as people make out, and, anyway, it's over, it happened, get over it.

Besides, whatever else happens, the final issues will be perfect. You have my word on it. And on the artists jam thing... Grant is great at handling different artists, making it all work. Let's have a little faith, people.

Ganesha
Myrmidon
posted November 24, 1999 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesha     Edit/Delete Message
I'm not hugely looking forward to Jill's piece; her Fanny stank to high heaven.

(Actually, her Lord Fanny wasn't that bad; I just wanted to make a rather contrived, smutty Brit-joke...)

Podge Dirkins
Initiate
posted November 25, 1999 12:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Podge Dirkins     Edit/Delete Message
Greetings all.

I should point out that nowhere in my criticism of Jill's artwork on INVISIBLES did I refer to the "She-Man" arc. I found her stuff there rather nice, and it didn't detract from my enjoyment of the story, one of the best in the series.

My only bone to pick is with "Arcadia", which could have hit so much harder if it had been illustrated in a less 'scratchy' (to use someone else's term) and loose manner.

Also, I don't intend to pass judgment on Jill's entire body of work based on my dislike of the "Arcadia" artwork. The SCARY GODMOTHER stuff and FINALS are of course most delightful.

Piggybacking on PornoHolocaust now (mind if I clamber up there, guv?), what artists would everyone like to see assigned to different parts of the world, should that be Grant's intention in the upcoming arc?

Here's how I'd split it up:

Britain - Yeowell (is he even slated for "Invisible Kingdom"?)

America - Jiminez (I'm *certain* he's not slated, but that'd be my pick. In his absence, I'd go for Weston probably.)

India and Abroad - Philips

And on a related note, since Weston's take on Fanny has been cited as weak above, what are everyone's favourite depictions of the characters?

Here are some of mine:

Mob - Weston, Jiminez, Philips

Fanny - Bond

Robin - Jiminez

Boy - Edwards, Weston

Jack - Yeowell, Jiminez, Philips

Jim Crow - Weston ("Season Of Ghouls" is fantastic.)

Jolly Roger - Jiminez, Weston, Bond

Edie - Jiminez and Philips

ElFayed - Bond

Mr Six - Yeowell, Philips

Sir Miles - Jiminez, Bond

Chessbloke - Weston

Harlequinade - Jiminez

Bang bang bang goes the trolley,
Podge D.

Sandfarmer
Operative
posted November 25, 1999 07:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sandfarmer   Click Here to Email Sandfarmer     Edit/Delete Message
I agree that vol. 3 is incredible but I'm not a big fan of the art. I guess I'm just getting bored with that Mike Allred style. I like it for campy things but I like the Invisibles to have a more realistic look.

Citizen Smith
Operative
posted November 25, 1999 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Citizen Smith     Edit/Delete Message
Ah, sod it, let's just get Jack Kirby to do the last issue and turn the Invisibles into the New Gods or the Eternals. You can always take the comic outside to blow the cigar ash off it, after all.

Zephir
Myrmidon
posted November 25, 1999 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zephir   Click Here to Email Zephir     Edit/Delete Message
Hmmm,

Fanny -- Bolland

Mr. 6 -- Buckingham

Archons -- Weston

Jack, Boy, Robin, Miles -- Jiminez

And, well, I can't really say any more until we see the last issue, quite frankly.

But I always thought Weston's Fanny was sweet. Tch, us Americans, we got no sense of humor.

Ganesha
Myrmidon
posted November 25, 1999 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesha     Edit/Delete Message
Phillip Bond's Fanny is sweetest of all - but then, he can do no wrong.

watsonwear
Initiate
posted November 25, 1999 10:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for watsonwear     Edit/Delete Message
Now I don't want to hear any more nonsense about the BRILLIANT Jill Thompson! Remember her work on Sandman (at home I even have two greaaaat sketches from the UKCAC convention of 1993; one of Death, the other Delirium). Ana about Arcadia: what is your problem, really? Sure, it didn't sell as much as might have been hoped for, and I know Jill herself says the art work was rushed - but those drawings of Byron and Shelley! And ORLANDO! Scared the shit out of me. Simply wonderful.

Ganesha
Myrmidon
posted November 25, 1999 11:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesha     Edit/Delete Message
Hmm, now I'd have used her work on Sandman as an argument AGAINST her. But then I guess it's all a matter of taste...

Twig the Wonder Kid
Operative
posted November 26, 1999 06:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Twig the Wonder Kid   Click Here to Email Twig the Wonder Kid     Edit/Delete Message
Jill Thompson stinks. Lets hear no more about it.

Gentleman Assassin
Initiate
posted November 26, 1999 02:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gentleman Assassin     Edit/Delete Message
Jill Thompson is a good artist and I don't think that your word is the last word, Twig. Her art may have a more scratchy style than some people like, but I felt her depiction of post-revolutionary france was sufficiently grubby and dirty, and her Jack had a great vunerabilty...

Zephir
Myrmidon
posted November 26, 1999 06:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zephir   Click Here to Email Zephir     Edit/Delete Message
Whatever you say, twig. But you've gotta look at the rob leifield esque King Mob page when he's talking to Edie, then the miller esque sin city scenes where Brodie is beating up... umm, whathisname... kirby? Something. The pictures of Fanny throwing up were really cool, I thought. Though, I agree, her characters are the ugliest, she's still a good artist. Most artists I know do stink, at least, literally speaking. So I guess there is a point to be made, but...

Cochese
Operative
posted November 26, 1999 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cochese     Edit/Delete Message
So arcadia was a bit whiffy, who cares? "good in parts" is the phrase we're looking for, rather than an all round drubbing, and the great work she did for Sheman is proof that it was just a bad phase... The different styles of art used over the series have served the story well, providing probably the main framing device for how we read it. The scratchy, spare style of the first issues gradually coalescing into more realistic stuff in volume 2, as the story deepened and we all became so involved in it in the first place... And now in volume 3, with reality on the verge of detonation everything's becoming simpler and more symbolic. Satanstorm's art is the way it is to remind us that we're reading a comic, fiction etc after the more realistic style used beforehand... I really like the art in that story, it brings out the comedic elements perfectly and there are some lovely touches - Harper dropping his drink being my fave. Karmageddon's devotional aura is matched by the art again, making it look in places like stained glass windows.
And stuff. It's all going to plan, basically.

Citizen Smith
Operative
posted November 26, 1999 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Citizen Smith     Edit/Delete Message
Am I the only person who buys The Invisibles purely for the story and wouldn't give a shit if the bloke who draws Beau Peep in The Star drew it? Despite what I've said earlier, naturally.

All comic art is bollocks, anyway. I truly hope no-one out there has any on their living room walls.

Loz
Operative
posted November 27, 1999 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Loz   Click Here to Email Loz     Edit/Delete Message
I would guess you are Smithy, for me the whole point of the fact that it's a comic is that some importance must be attached to the artwork, otherwise Grant should have written it all as a novel.

sleazenation
Operative
posted November 27, 1999 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sleazenation     Edit/Delete Message
I'm not sure if i'm agreeing or dis agreeing here loz, but here goes-

There are some specific reasons why the narrative and to a certain extent, the subject matter is ideally suited to the invisibles

Situationists have a bit of a history of using the comic form.

and lest we forget- comics are not just the funny books you all see in taughtologically (sp!) named comic shop- comics, for me at least is a combination of words and pictures to make meanings- (Scott McCloud does argue that the combinations have to be sequential in some way, and that they don't necessaryly contain words) and as such print advertising is rife with comics- on the bill boards, in magazines- Comics are everywhere!

Big fucking glossy magazines (with their graphically designed combination of text and image that will appeal to both comic read and text/image fetishist alike) are highly stylised comics!

As a denegrated medium yet massively popular medium comics is perhaps the ideal medium for ontological terrorism of the type found in the invisibles!

what do you guys all think?

ianjones
Myrmidon
posted November 27, 1999 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ianjones   Click Here to Email ianjones     Edit/Delete Message
The city centre is the ideal place for ontological terrorism or agitprop events comics are a nice too, though.

Citizen Smith
Operative
posted November 27, 1999 01:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Citizen Smith     Edit/Delete Message
Okay, so maybe comic art isn't so shit after all. Maybe I just said that because I was stuck in the house on a Friday night with no prospect of a beer. The Invisibles obviously wouldn't work as a novel, because it's the fusion of words and often-unrelated images which lies at the core of its successful story-telling. Ie it's a comic, I suppose I'm saying, and wouldn't work any other way. It's still a world and a half away from crap superhero stuff with tiny panels filled with talking heads and thought bubbles and the occasional scrap. The Invisibles is really beyond comics as we know them. Only GM has, for me anyway, been able to use the medium properly without being constrained by the limits of traditional comic-book storytelling, which even the likes of Alan Moore force themselves to work in.
Still, please tell me no-one has a framed X-Men print above their fireplace?

Gentleman Assassin
Initiate
posted November 27, 1999 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gentleman Assassin     Edit/Delete Message
As much as I love Frank, issue 1 should be drawn by Sergio Aragones...

Zephir
Myrmidon
posted November 28, 1999 02:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Zephir   Click Here to Email Zephir     Edit/Delete Message
I wonder if Duncan Fregado will get in on the jam?

You've gotta keep in mind that everything on a panel is written, or drawn, at one point by grant, it all fits together. It's like the news vendor saying newsvendors notice things other people don't to the kid with the comic, and in the background, rorshaq is checking his maildrop... Words are great, but time and time again, some things, you just can't put into words, and the more I try to, the more I realize how much I don't want to, sometimes.

Citizen Smith
Operative
posted November 28, 1999 02:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Citizen Smith     Edit/Delete Message
Zephir, you sound as hammered as me.

watsonwear
Initiate
posted November 28, 1999 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for watsonwear     Edit/Delete Message
As much as I love comic art, I must agree with Citizen Smith that it does look ugly on your wall. Normally. But perhaps a MUTTS poster would do the trick?

Citizen Smith
Operative
posted November 28, 1999 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Citizen Smith     Edit/Delete Message
Not that there's anything wrong with a nice big print of Matter-Eater Lass drawn by Dan Pussey heheheh.

Ganesha
Myrmidon
posted November 28, 1999 10:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesha     Edit/Delete Message
Comic-art of the superhero variety is a fairly 'safe' way for adolescent males to indulge in fairly innocent visual homoerotica without fear of being labelled 'queer'. I know it was for me - that and the Underwear section of Kays' catalogue.

Oh, hang on a moment...I AM queer...

King Mob
Initiate
posted November 29, 1999 12:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for King Mob   Click Here to Email King Mob     Edit/Delete Message
what a bunch of fuckin' bull shit!

Ganesha
Myrmidon
posted November 29, 1999 12:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesha     Edit/Delete Message
Not at all. I'm not saying that's its only function, KM, but it's definitely part of its appeal for many...

Ganesha
Myrmidon
posted November 29, 1999 12:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ganesha     Edit/Delete Message
And how does one collect a 'bunch' of bullshit? Hmmm...

look!NickWaddam!
Operative
posted November 29, 1999 01:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for look!NickWaddam!   Click Here to Email look!NickWaddam!     Edit/Delete Message
I'm tired and I'm grumpy, but this is starting to piss me off. I hate posts that consist of abusive one liners or boring bloody soundbytes. Qualify terms: If you think someone's post is "bullshit" then tell them why.

LeKookAmongUs
Initiate
posted November 29, 1999 03:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeKookAmongUs     Edit/Delete Message
Oh, fuck off.

watsonwear
Initiate
posted November 29, 1999 11:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for watsonwear     Edit/Delete Message
Then again, many panels by Jiminez and Weston would do splendidly as CD covers. So why not as wall art? My biggest letdown so far has been 1:25, where the once (by Jiminez) supertough agent Harper was turned (by Pennington?) into a slapstick character. But I got used to that as well.

look!NickWaddam!
Operative
posted November 29, 1999 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for look!NickWaddam!   Click Here to Email look!NickWaddam!     Edit/Delete Message
Ho Ho, LeKook.

Ho Ho.

Seriously, though, this has nothing to do with being rude, or respect, or any that crap. Soundbytes and dismissive one liners are annoying and they just make the perpetrator look a bit dumb.

Mr. Whisper
Initiate
posted November 29, 1999 04:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mr. Whisper   Click Here to Email Mr. Whisper     Edit/Delete Message
actually watson (goddam i just love saying that) Jiminez's art was on the Kula Shaker album Summer Sun. Very cool cover.

speaking of Mr. Jiminez, what I've read makes me think Phil isn't contributing to this arc. Somebody say it ain't so.

This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are GMT

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Open Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  
Hop to:

Contact Us | Barbelith

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Version 5.38d
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 1999.

Barbelith | The Bomb | Dice Man