| Author |
Topic: Volume 3 On 11/23. |
Podge Dirkins Initiate |
posted November 24, 1999 08:00 AM
Greetings all.
First post and it's just a little note to say how pleased I am
with Volume 3. Read it through from the beginning today (what better
day for it?) and once again confirmed that it's the most dense,
cohesive, and nourishing distillation of the INVISIBLES as yet. Nay?
Three things:
1) I'm somewhat concerned about the multi-artist jam that's
upcoming in "The Invisible Kingdom". The look of the book has been
so consistent and striking throughout Volume 3 that I'd hate to see
it spoiled by a sudden divergence of styles and approaches.
Even moreso I'd hate to see the quality of the artwork drop even
a smidgen, given how damn perfect Volume 3 has clocked in thus far
(and apologies to her fans, but I'm thinking Jill Thompson's work on
"Arcadia" here, and I'm thinking I wouldn't want to see that kind of
approach to the visuals this late in the game and at this critical a
juncture).
Take a look at how well Bond and Philips have meshed across the
first eight issues. Even with the slight shift in style between the
two, the approach remains the same -- bold, strong black lines (no
shading) against solid blocks of single colours. A most gorgeous and
iconic representation of Grant's ideas and characters. It's a
perfect look for the final chapter, thematically appropriate and
visually arresting.
And that's why I'm worried the whole momentum may be spoiled by
the impending smorgasbord.
Foolish?
2) Coming back round to an overall assessment of Volume 3, and
this one directed at the writing...all I can say is, it's never been
*this* good, *this* tight, *this* moving, *this* well-connected.
"Satanstorm" is a complete corker. Grant's in control from first
panel through to last, and every time I read it I find new ways to
inhabit, process, and adore it.
"Karmageddon" is absolutely beautiful, perhaps the most powerful
and emotionally satisfying arc in the series as it stands.
The level of excellence Grant has established in Volume 3...I can
only hope he doesn't drop the ball. Because if "The Invisible
Kingdom" and the final issue are as lovely as the two preceding
chapters, I mean, just imagine a TPB of Volume 3. It would be the
INVISIBLES at its most incandescent.
It's like Grant has been working through the iterations,
hammering it down, condensing it down, and at the end here it's
reached a pinnacle, an ideal Platonic form. Read 12 thru 5 in one
sitting, as fast as you can manage, and see.
3) And speaking of endings, sigh. I must admit a real sadness in
knowing there are only 4 issues left of this. After that, there's
just the paper and me and you and whatever we choose to do with it.
But despite all that, I foresee a kind of loneliness in not having a
new slice of the INVISIBLES each month or so. I think I'll miss it
as I would an absent friend.
That's it for now. What say you?
Visored, Podge Dirkins
|
70sman Operative |
posted November 24, 1999 09:07 AM
I agree entirely.
|
PornoHolocaust Operative |
posted November 24, 1999 04:16 PM
I'm expecting a lot of scene shifts in the artists jam. I'm hoping
Grant will use the opportunity to send each artist to a different
part of the world to cover the huge cast he's built, lessening the
usual havoc created by several artists on one story.
|
Cochese Operative |
posted November 24, 1999 04:28 PM
Whatever it's going to be, it's going to be good, that's for sure. i
keep thinking of little things that I want to see followed up and
explained...More Fanny! Jim Crow back!(hopefully) What happens in
2012! What happens to Miles! What happens to KM! And
everything! Strap yourselves in, folks. Hell of a ride and all
those cliches.
|
Loz Operative |
posted November 24, 1999 06:52 PM
I just hope that wherever Hilde is going to be that Weston doesn't
get that job, because his Fanny sucked big time (though at least he
didn't make her look like a five year old).
|
Citizen Smith Operative |
posted November 24, 1999 07:51 PM
The artwork on the Arcadia arc really was a big bunch of
arse,though, wasn't it? I lent those issues to a friend who is quite
Invisiblist but doesn't read comics, and he couldn't really see
beyond the crude scratchings to the storyline, and just thought it
was the same stuff as the rest of the superhero wank. Volume three
does it for me.
|
look!NickWaddam! Operative |
posted November 24, 1999 08:12 PM
I don't really gel with all of the flack that Thompson gets. A long
time ago I hammered out a post attempting to balance out the
equation. Thematically her art really did the Job. "Sheman" was
concerned, amongst other things, with the "feminine". The harsh
"urban" art of Steve Yeowell would not, for instance, have been
suitable here. Rather, it is supplanted by soft lines, curves, and a
lack of rigidity. Reality dissolves, the "membrane shivers",
identities and genders merge. Perfect. Grant has been very
careful to make sure that the art reflects the tone of the book, and
the art in the Sheman arc was no exception. In fact I could go on
all day about how the art reflects the content.
But I won't.
I'm not saying anyone has to like the art - I'm not discussing
aesthetic preference here - I'm simply pointing out that Thompson
served her "function" well.
I have no problem with the "artist jam", soon to be gracing the
pages of our favourite comic. Reality is being drawn into the
singularity, counting down to the root of identity/universe.
Everything collides in the centre. The artist jam reflects this.
Poetry.
Anyway, on a simpler note, change is always good.
[This message has been edited by look!NickWaddam! (edited
November 24, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by look!NickWaddam! (edited
November 24, 1999).]
|
Citizen Smith Operative |
posted November 24, 1999 08:23 PM
Actually the Sheman stuff was okay. Specifically, it was 120 Days of
Sod All that I thought stank. The horror the issue should have
conveyed was leavened by artwork that looked like it had been done
with one eye on EastEnders. Nothing personal, of course.
|
Zephir Myrmidon |
posted November 24, 1999 08:36 PM
At the risk of sounding unpopular... I don't hate Jill Thompson's
art. Dammit. Look at the better parts of Sheman, look at the Finals
series she did. I think a lot of it depends on the inkings, but
there are some panels in arcadia that were so graphic and intense
and well, traumatizing... at least, it wasn't as horrible as people
make out, and, anyway, it's over, it happened, get over it.
Besides, whatever else happens, the final issues will be perfect.
You have my word on it. And on the artists jam thing... Grant is
great at handling different artists, making it all work. Let's have
a little faith, people.
|
Ganesha Myrmidon |
posted November 24, 1999 08:39 PM
I'm not hugely looking forward to Jill's piece; her Fanny stank to
high heaven.
(Actually, her Lord Fanny wasn't that bad; I just wanted to make
a rather contrived, smutty Brit-joke...)
|
Podge Dirkins Initiate |
posted November 25, 1999 12:16 AM
Greetings all.
I should point out that nowhere in my criticism of Jill's artwork
on INVISIBLES did I refer to the "She-Man" arc. I found her stuff
there rather nice, and it didn't detract from my enjoyment of the
story, one of the best in the series.
My only bone to pick is with "Arcadia", which could have hit so
much harder if it had been illustrated in a less 'scratchy' (to use
someone else's term) and loose manner.
Also, I don't intend to pass judgment on Jill's entire body of
work based on my dislike of the "Arcadia" artwork. The SCARY
GODMOTHER stuff and FINALS are of course most delightful.
Piggybacking on PornoHolocaust now (mind if I clamber up there,
guv?), what artists would everyone like to see assigned to different
parts of the world, should that be Grant's intention in the upcoming
arc?
Here's how I'd split it up:
Britain - Yeowell (is he even slated for "Invisible Kingdom"?)
America - Jiminez (I'm *certain* he's not slated, but that'd be
my pick. In his absence, I'd go for Weston probably.)
India and Abroad - Philips
And on a related note, since Weston's take on Fanny has been
cited as weak above, what are everyone's favourite depictions of the
characters?
Here are some of mine:
Mob - Weston, Jiminez, Philips
Fanny - Bond
Robin - Jiminez
Boy - Edwards, Weston
Jack - Yeowell, Jiminez, Philips
Jim Crow - Weston ("Season Of Ghouls" is fantastic.)
Jolly Roger - Jiminez, Weston, Bond
Edie - Jiminez and Philips
ElFayed - Bond
Mr Six - Yeowell, Philips
Sir Miles - Jiminez, Bond
Chessbloke - Weston
Harlequinade - Jiminez
Bang bang bang goes the trolley, Podge D.
|
Sandfarmer Operative |
posted November 25, 1999 07:14 AM
I agree that vol. 3 is incredible but I'm not a big fan of the art.
I guess I'm just getting bored with that Mike Allred style. I like
it for campy things but I like the Invisibles to have a more
realistic look.
|
Citizen Smith Operative |
posted November 25, 1999 09:32 PM
Ah, sod it, let's just get Jack Kirby to do the last issue and turn
the Invisibles into the New Gods or the Eternals. You can always
take the comic outside to blow the cigar ash off it, after
all.
|
Zephir Myrmidon |
posted November 25, 1999 09:33 PM
Hmmm,
Fanny -- Bolland
Mr. 6 -- Buckingham
Archons -- Weston
Jack, Boy, Robin, Miles -- Jiminez
And, well, I can't really say any more until we see the last
issue, quite frankly.
But I always thought Weston's Fanny was sweet. Tch, us Americans,
we got no sense of humor.
|
Ganesha Myrmidon |
posted November 25, 1999 10:08 PM
Phillip Bond's Fanny is sweetest of all - but then, he can do no
wrong.
|
watsonwear Initiate |
posted November 25, 1999 10:23 PM
Now I don't want to hear any more nonsense about the BRILLIANT Jill
Thompson! Remember her work on Sandman (at home I even have two
greaaaat sketches from the UKCAC convention of 1993; one of Death,
the other Delirium). Ana about Arcadia: what is your problem,
really? Sure, it didn't sell as much as might have been hoped for,
and I know Jill herself says the art work was rushed - but those
drawings of Byron and Shelley! And ORLANDO! Scared the shit out of
me. Simply wonderful.
|
Ganesha Myrmidon |
posted November 25, 1999 11:54 PM
Hmm, now I'd have used her work on Sandman as an argument AGAINST
her. But then I guess it's all a matter of taste...
|
Twig the Wonder Kid Operative |
posted November 26, 1999 06:11 AM
Jill Thompson stinks. Lets hear no more about it.
|
Gentleman Assassin Initiate |
posted November 26, 1999 02:01 PM
Jill Thompson is a good artist and I don't think that your word is
the last word, Twig. Her art may have a more scratchy style than
some people like, but I felt her depiction of post-revolutionary
france was sufficiently grubby and dirty, and her Jack had a great
vunerabilty...
|
Zephir Myrmidon |
posted November 26, 1999 06:59 PM
Whatever you say, twig. But you've gotta look at the rob leifield
esque King Mob page when he's talking to Edie, then the miller esque
sin city scenes where Brodie is beating up... umm, whathisname...
kirby? Something. The pictures of Fanny throwing up were really
cool, I thought. Though, I agree, her characters are the ugliest,
she's still a good artist. Most artists I know do stink, at least,
literally speaking. So I guess there is a point to be made,
but...
|
Cochese Operative |
posted November 26, 1999 08:09 PM
So arcadia was a bit whiffy, who cares? "good in parts" is the
phrase we're looking for, rather than an all round drubbing, and the
great work she did for Sheman is proof that it was just a bad
phase... The different styles of art used over the series have
served the story well, providing probably the main framing device
for how we read it. The scratchy, spare style of the first issues
gradually coalescing into more realistic stuff in volume 2, as the
story deepened and we all became so involved in it in the first
place... And now in volume 3, with reality on the verge of
detonation everything's becoming simpler and more symbolic.
Satanstorm's art is the way it is to remind us that we're reading a
comic, fiction etc after the more realistic style used beforehand...
I really like the art in that story, it brings out the comedic
elements perfectly and there are some lovely touches - Harper
dropping his drink being my fave. Karmageddon's devotional aura is
matched by the art again, making it look in places like stained
glass windows. And stuff. It's all going to plan, basically.
|
Citizen Smith Operative |
posted November 26, 1999 08:14 PM
Am I the only person who buys The Invisibles purely for the story
and wouldn't give a shit if the bloke who draws Beau Peep in The
Star drew it? Despite what I've said earlier, naturally.
All comic art is bollocks, anyway. I truly hope no-one out there
has any on their living room walls.
|
Loz Operative |
posted November 27, 1999 09:32 AM
I would guess you are Smithy, for me the whole point of the fact
that it's a comic is that some importance must be attached to the
artwork, otherwise Grant should have written it all as a
novel.
|
sleazenation Operative |
posted November 27, 1999 09:56 AM
I'm not sure if i'm agreeing or dis agreeing here loz, but here
goes-
There are some specific reasons why the narrative and to a
certain extent, the subject matter is ideally suited to the
invisibles
Situationists have a bit of a history of using the comic form.
and lest we forget- comics are not just the funny books you all
see in taughtologically (sp!) named comic shop- comics, for me at
least is a combination of words and pictures to make meanings-
(Scott McCloud does argue that the combinations have to be
sequential in some way, and that they don't necessaryly contain
words) and as such print advertising is rife with comics- on the
bill boards, in magazines- Comics are everywhere!
Big fucking glossy magazines (with their graphically designed
combination of text and image that will appeal to both comic read
and text/image fetishist alike) are highly stylised comics!
As a denegrated medium yet massively popular medium comics is
perhaps the ideal medium for ontological terrorism of the type found
in the invisibles!
what do you guys all think?
|
ianjones Myrmidon |
posted November 27, 1999 12:22 PM
The city centre is the ideal place for ontological terrorism or
agitprop events comics are a nice too, though.
|
Citizen Smith Operative |
posted November 27, 1999 01:48 PM
Okay, so maybe comic art isn't so shit after all. Maybe I just said
that because I was stuck in the house on a Friday night with no
prospect of a beer. The Invisibles obviously wouldn't work as a
novel, because it's the fusion of words and often-unrelated images
which lies at the core of its successful story-telling. Ie it's a
comic, I suppose I'm saying, and wouldn't work any other way. It's
still a world and a half away from crap superhero stuff with tiny
panels filled with talking heads and thought bubbles and the
occasional scrap. The Invisibles is really beyond comics as we know
them. Only GM has, for me anyway, been able to use the medium
properly without being constrained by the limits of traditional
comic-book storytelling, which even the likes of Alan Moore force
themselves to work in. Still, please tell me no-one has a framed
X-Men print above their fireplace?
|
Gentleman Assassin Initiate |
posted November 27, 1999 09:00 PM
As much as I love Frank, issue 1 should be drawn by Sergio
Aragones...
|
Zephir Myrmidon |
posted November 28, 1999 02:11 AM
I wonder if Duncan Fregado will get in on the jam?
You've gotta keep in mind that everything on a panel is written,
or drawn, at one point by grant, it all fits together. It's like the
news vendor saying newsvendors notice things other people don't to
the kid with the comic, and in the background, rorshaq is checking
his maildrop... Words are great, but time and time again, some
things, you just can't put into words, and the more I try to, the
more I realize how much I don't want to, sometimes.
|
Citizen Smith Operative |
posted November 28, 1999 02:53 AM
Zephir, you sound as hammered as me.
|
watsonwear Initiate |
posted November 28, 1999 01:24 PM
As much as I love comic art, I must agree with Citizen Smith that it
does look ugly on your wall. Normally. But perhaps a MUTTS poster
would do the trick?
|
Citizen Smith Operative |
posted November 28, 1999 03:37 PM
Not that there's anything wrong with a nice big print of
Matter-Eater Lass drawn by Dan Pussey heheheh.
|
Ganesha Myrmidon |
posted November 28, 1999 10:04 PM
Comic-art of the superhero variety is a fairly 'safe' way for
adolescent males to indulge in fairly innocent visual homoerotica
without fear of being labelled 'queer'. I know it was for me - that
and the Underwear section of Kays' catalogue.
Oh, hang on a moment...I AM queer...
|
King Mob Initiate |
posted November 29, 1999 12:21 AM
what a bunch of fuckin' bull shit!
|
Ganesha Myrmidon |
posted November 29, 1999 12:42 AM
Not at all. I'm not saying that's its only function, KM, but it's
definitely part of its appeal for many...
|
Ganesha Myrmidon |
posted November 29, 1999 12:43 AM
And how does one collect a 'bunch' of bullshit? Hmmm...
|
look!NickWaddam! Operative |
posted November 29, 1999 01:11 AM
I'm tired and I'm grumpy, but this is starting to piss me off. I
hate posts that consist of abusive one liners or boring bloody
soundbytes. Qualify terms: If you think someone's post is "bullshit"
then tell them why.
|
LeKookAmongUs Initiate |
posted November 29, 1999 03:36 AM
Oh, fuck off.
|
watsonwear Initiate |
posted November 29, 1999 11:51 AM
Then again, many panels by Jiminez and Weston would do splendidly as
CD covers. So why not as wall art? My biggest letdown so far has
been 1:25, where the once (by Jiminez) supertough agent Harper was
turned (by Pennington?) into a slapstick character. But I got used
to that as well.
|
look!NickWaddam! Operative |
posted November 29, 1999 02:54 PM
Ho Ho, LeKook.
Ho Ho.
Seriously, though, this has nothing to do with being rude, or
respect, or any that crap. Soundbytes and dismissive one liners are
annoying and they just make the perpetrator look a bit dumb.
|
Mr.
Whisper Initiate |
posted November 29, 1999 04:05 PM
actually watson (goddam i just love saying that) Jiminez's art was
on the Kula Shaker album Summer Sun. Very cool cover.
speaking of Mr. Jiminez, what I've read makes me think Phil isn't
contributing to this arc. Somebody say it ain't so.
| |