| Author |
Topic: Who is this God anyway?
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ianjones
Myrmidon |
posted November 17, 1999 08:58 PM
  
This thread was running in the moviehouse, or whatever and turned
into a rant of mostly antireligious opinions.
I think God is real and hates religious people because they run
around expressing opinions that have no basis and facts that are
primarily designed to promote their own authority. Gods wants us to
get on with our lives and be cool. The devil wants us organized.
Father Ted says he can't remember the difference between a priest
and a fascist. Thats more or less were I'm coming from. I don't want
to even try to be articulate about this because my alphabet has NOT
GOT ENUF LETTERS.
But some people do. Go Ahead.
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Harry
Initiate |
posted November 18, 1999 01:31 PM
Why would God hat religious people? They are only trying to do their
best, usually.
If a person is a religious bigot, who is to say that without
religion they wouldn't be a bigot anyway.
Sorry to try to make you articulate(!) but I'm interested. I have
a dislike of religion personally, at the moment, but for some people
it gives them a lot of hope and support.
Whaddya think?
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Harry
Initiate |
posted November 18, 1999 01:32 PM
Why would God hat religious people? They are only trying to do their
best, usually.
If a person is a religious bigot, who is to say that without
religion they wouldn't be a bigot anyway.
Sorry to try to make you articulate(!) but I'm interested. I have
a dislike of religion personally, at the moment, but for some people
it gives them a lot of hope and support.
Whaddya think?
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Harry
Initiate |
posted November 18, 1999 01:32 PM
Why would God hat religious people? They are only trying to do their
best, usually.
If a person is a religious bigot, who is to say that without
religion they wouldn't be a bigot anyway.
Sorry to try to make you articulate(!) but I'm interested. I have
a dislike of religion personally, at the moment, but for some people
it gives them a lot of hope and support.
Whaddya think?
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Chip
Myrmidon |
posted November 18, 1999 01:43 PM
I think instead, God preferes massive amounts of repetition, hence
his love for Catholics. "I can see the iterations--like the same
door and sarcophagus scrolling past when the mummy's chasing Scooby
and Shaggy along miles of dreamlike hallway--"
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grant
Operative |
posted November 18, 1999 02:34 PM
There was a great JD Salinger short story to that effect -- a woman
reaches religious enlightenment without really meaning to, just by
repeating a short prayer over and over again on a lark.
The moment of religion is a living, chaotic flame, and religious
organizations spring into being to attempt to keep that flame alive.
That's how I see it.
If the religious moment is a wild animal, is the Pope a pet
owner, a zookeeper, or a game warden?
Problem is, see, that vital religious moment doesn't do too well
in captivity. It's possible it'll survive, and maybe even breed, but
it's hard as hell to get it to thrive indoors.
The Kick-Ass Jesus
didn't have much time for Pharisees. Buddha quit hanging with the
Sadhus. Mohammed (may his name be praised) got exiled, if I remember
right.
The question is, if you're not already an Enlightened
Savior-type, how are you going to approach the wild creature of
religious illumination without building it a lethal cage?
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Quixotic Flux
Operative |
posted November 18, 1999 02:45 PM
You got to try to tame it to some exent. Otherwise it's the old
50,000 volts through the shaver problem. The question remains,
though. Is God Out There? Or In Here? Or neither? (Pantheism?
Eastern conceptions of God as Universe, each of us being some aspect
of the divine dance?) Cast your votes.
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Ganesha
Myrmidon |
posted November 18, 1999 05:38 PM
I've always reckoned that if a God exists, he/she/it must be
incredibly insecure, what with this seemingly constant need/appetite
for being 'praised' by large numbers of people. Couldn't God stop
fishing for compliments and just get on with the job?
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ianjones
Myrmidon |
posted November 18, 1999 07:28 PM
Harry, cool iteration of point.
I said I think God hates religious people because they are
generally abusive of religion, using it for self aggrandization and
control over others.
I don't believe in religion I do believe in God.
If you can't find God in yourself or the world (which is the same
thing) I don't care. I can.
But if you tell me that God wants me mutilate my childrens
genitals in a way even Gary Glitter would gag at, or to kill loads
of people, or wear a funny hat or anything else sadistic baroque or
comedic I will consider you completely wierd. And thats what
Religious people often do. They make up rules and cut others of from
god within and god without, and therefore recognizing the essential
unity of spirit and world.
Of course God doesn't hate them, but I am sorely tempted to hate
them on his behalf.
And Ganesha and Grant, prayer isn't for God its a form of
meditation to focus inner self. I've never found spiritual power in
clerically led group drones. But clear prayer in a quiet empty
corner of a church or mosque does it for me.
[This message has been edited by ianjones (edited November 18,
1999).]
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Ganesha
Myrmidon |
posted November 18, 1999 11:06 PM
Why the emphasis on 'praise', then? Surely God doesn't go for that
sycophantic droning?
I have no problem with individuals believing whatever they like -
as long as it doesn't impinge on others in a harmful way. My big
gripe with organised religion is the 'conversion' aspect, the
apparent fact that it's seemingly not enough to be quietly faithful:
you have to 'spread the good news' to a greater or lesser extent. I
mean, I really like salt & vinegar crisps - but I don't feel the
need to stand on street corners shouting about it, or knocking on
people's doors to inform them of this 'news'.
Gah!
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ianjones
Myrmidon |
posted November 19, 1999 07:41 AM
Ganesha, Exactly.
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Quixotic Flux
Operative |
posted November 19, 1999 02:20 PM
If the completely and utterly nutty but generally wonderfully
insprired Bob Wilson is right (and good old Tim Leary, too, god
bless 'im), what's occuring here is that religious folks have
succeeded in activating some 'brain-circuit' or other which makes
them feel enormously, staggeringly pleased with life. Rituals and
practices to activate this 'circuit' (there's probably a better
analogy around nowadays) using psychoactive substances and appeals
to 'higher', 'external' entities have been used for millenia. It
feels so good, you just gotta tell everybody about it. Like your
mate who's just fallen in love, only more so. If this reads like a
defence of religious folk, it is - but only to an extent. The
cleverer mystics have generally figured out that what's really going
on is a fine-tuning of the central nervous system, allowing it to
access new frequencies (again, there's probably a better analogy
nowadays for that, too), rather than an external 'God' filling them
with good news.
So, religious people are o.k. - but they can
still fuck off. (Only joking.)
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Ganesha
Myrmidon |
posted November 19, 1999 04:18 PM
Bizarre then, that so many of them seem keen on imposing 'moral'
strangleholds on others to STOP them enjoying life...
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Twig the Wonder Kid
Initiate |
posted November 20, 1999 04:45 PM
What I don't get is, why should an omnipotent, omniscient all
powerful universe creator give a monkeys whether you capitalise the
first letter of his name.
Is s/he really that petty?
god is just dog spelt backwards
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Loz
Operative |
posted November 21, 1999 08:20 AM
Please feel free to stab me with pointy sticks if I'm wrong, but
isn't Christianity the only major religion which as part of it's
basic doctrines state; "You must go out and convert the heathen to
Christianity or else you'll fry in Hell ya little bastich"? Whereas
with other religions, such as Islam, they leave the choice of
whether you convert to them or die the death reserved for
nonbelievers up to you?
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Ganesha
Myrmidon |
posted November 21, 1999 02:20 PM
That's what I like about Hinduism; you basically have to be born
into it, so there's not a lot of point in trying to score
'conversions'.
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grant
Operative |
posted November 21, 1999 09:25 PM
Loz, I *think* there are some flavors of Buddhism which also put a
high degree of importance on conversion; I know Buddhist
missionaries spread out East from India to Japan and Java and
beyond... and that part of the doctrine is the salvation of every
living thing.
On the other topics, that Old Testament capital "G" God (the
word, by the way, comes from the Old English "good" -- sort of like
"fairies" comes from "Fair Folk," in that you didn't actually want
to utter the Name), anyway, the IAm fellow is a disturbing
sort.
On the one hand, you have lots of killing of firstborn and
no eating catfish or wearing cotton-poly blends (check Leviticus;
it's true) and adults circumcising themselves *before going into
war*, and on the other hand you have the WORD moving across the
waters and inspiring all them prophets and ordering people to be
nice to each other.
I think the book of Job is vitally important to this; I also
think that part of Genesis where Jacob actually wrestles with God
(or the Angel of the Lord, depending on how you read it) is very
important. (Jacob wins, as I recall -- eat that, Randy "Macho Man"
Savage.)
I haven't worked it out yet entirely for myself,
though.
If the Universe is a hologram, though, I'm pretty sure
the Big Picture has a definite persona and isn't just a faceless
void.
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