| Author |
Topic: On Death and Dying |
grant Operative |
posted December 09, 1999 05:00 PM
got this of a not-so cheesy email forward:
ìThereís this little wave ó does he wave ó whoís bobbing up and
down on the ocean, having a great time, and all of the sudden he
recognizes heís going to crash into the shore. In this big wide
ocean, heís now walking ó moving toward the shore. Heíll be
annihilated. He gets so despairing. ëMy God, whatís going to happen
to me?í And heís got this sour, despairing look on his face. Along
comes a female wave bobbing up and down having a great time. The
female wave says to the male wave, ëWhy are you so depressed?í Male
says, ëYou donít understand, youíre going to crash into that shore
and youíll be nothing.í She says, ëYou donít understand, youíre not
a wave, youíre part of the ocean.í Thatís what I believe.î -- a
terminally ill Morrie Schwartz, from a Nightline broadcast on
dying.
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Ganesha Myrmidon |
posted December 09, 1999 07:43 PM
Hmmm. Sounds a little like Chloe (was it Chloe?) from Fight Club.
Did she have amyl nitrate and hardcore porn back at her flat?
|
grant Operative |
posted December 10, 1999 05:08 PM
I need to see that movie.
|
Nick Myrmidon |
posted December 10, 1999 06:31 PM
Hmph. This is the kind of thing which doesn't convince me. Yes, you
are part of the ocean. However, you are a highly organised part of
the ocean, and a great deal of (non-teleological) effort has gone
into making what you are. It seems entirely appropriate to worry
about the dissolution of the organisational matrix which defines
your current self as you, rather than, say, a cloud of steam or a
chocolate sundae.
|
grant Operative |
posted December 11, 1999 01:39 AM
But what if you are a cloud of steam and a chocolate sundae and have
merely forgotten that? What if you're not dissolving awareness
but expanding it?
|
Nick Myrmidon |
posted December 11, 1999 10:10 AM
Then it's going to come as a pleasent surprise, isn't it? In the
meantime, though, either you did this to yourself deliberately, so
don't second guess the experience, or you didn't, and it'll all be
over soon, OR this is the 'real' you, in which case protect it with
every tool evolution and science can give you. Or join the discard
pile.
[This message has been edited by Nick (edited December 11,
1999).]
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Naraoia Operative |
posted December 11, 1999 07:43 PM
We all need to think of death as our ally (yes, Fanny said it, but
she was just repeating what shamans have said for fifty thousand
years). Either you spend your life paralyzed by the fear of death or
you make it your friend and go dancing.
All the same, there's no reason to invite it round for dinner any
time soon. Personally, I plan to live forever or die trying.
|
Nick Myrmidon |
posted December 14, 1999 11:46 AM
I'm with you up to a point. But I don't understand why Death is an
ally if it does mean End.
There was an interesting thing in Hellblazer a lllloooonnnngggg
time ago about it.
I sometimes think that Neil Gaiman didn't do us any favours
making Death into a cute goth chick. Death is a force, a happening,
maybe a full stop. It does not eat donuts and have sex with
comicbook readers. Or at least, not in the obvious ways.
I feel like Tyler Durden: Death is not your friend. You are not
walking with the Endless. You are just a bit part, a guy in a red
shirt in the early episodes of Star Trek. Learn to play hardball
with death, because death will not do you any favours, any more than
life.
|
Johnny7 Operative |
posted December 14, 1999 06:15 PM
Nick, I think I remember the Hellblazer issue you're talking about
-- #71, where Constantine comes across the skeleton of a dead
airman.
I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something like
"Death is not your ally, you don't humanize it, and it's not your
fucking friend! You don't accept death, you fight it to the last
breath!"
"Or else why did you bother in the first place?"
(I had been considering dropping HB at that point, reading that
issue -- hell, that one speech, changed my mind.)
|
JackFrost Operative |
posted December 14, 1999 07:00 PM
I think Gaiman's depiction of Death was meant to soothe fears about
Death's inevitability. Don't worry about death so much, she'll come
inevitably, and chances are you might like her. We all die
sometime...
I don't think it was meant to say that Death could be your
friend, at least while you're alive. I mean, I don't really remember
seeing her just hanging out with people, just her brothers and
sisters, and her position doesn't really mean that much to
them.
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Naraoia Operative |
posted December 14, 1999 07:11 PM
"Death is my ally" is an old shamanistic saying, which Lord Fanny
uses when she goes up against Quimper in Volume 2, and it deserves a
little clarification:
The shamanic idea of the ally is something that starts out as a
bitter enemy--and which will never be your friend. It's an ally
because if you face it, accept it, learn its patterns and its
secrets, you can make use of it. If only, as in this case, by
recognizing it when you see it and not shying away.
There are two reasons to make death your ally: one is to make
life more sweet. How often do most people think about death? How
often do most people think about being alive? Tyler Durden
definitely makes an ally of death, as in the car crash scene.
The other reason is to give yourself power over your life by
accepting its limitations and then transcending them. Fighting death
is pointless, much like fighting taxes. You pay your taxes--and then
you turn around and refuse to be identified with your tax bracket.
Just as you eventually will die--but for right now, that doesn't
have to be the point.
Nobody wants to die. Some of us are so afraid of it we forget to
live. That's all. Fanny says "Death is my ally" because Quimper has
threatened her with death--she's letting him know he's going to have
to try harder.
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